my sweet fiona is gone

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by cavylover2010

I am 16 and my sister is 11 and we both breed and raise goats and horses. Does that make us bad people.

Where did I say that breeders were bad people. You could all be lovely people, I wouldn't know. I do know that most of the time breeders do a HUGE disservice to animals.

It also depends on what and how you are breeding. There is a major overpopulation in horses you know. You can see it at the auctions and in the double decker stock trailers that drag horses off to slaughter. If you are breeding horses without a clear plan and if you aren't breeding exceptional, accomplished horses then it's quite likely you are part of the problem. If you breed a horse then you had better be committed to actually training and insuring the horse gets finished so that it has a chance of remaining useful and wanted for it's entire life and you had better be prepared to take back each horse you ever created to retire it if ever it is no longer wanted.

If all you are creating are plain old, nothing special horses, even if they are a pretty color, then you are definitely part of the problem. There are already thousands of "nothing special" horses out there. Breeding more of them only insures that someone ends up on a double decker headed to a slaughterhouse in Mexico or Canada. Fugly Horse of the Day!

[cavylover2010]

I do hope that the slauter markets open up in the U.S. Where do you think the dangerous horses should go. Should we just keep them and let someone get hurt or even killed by them? We breed our horses for good conformation and build. We also make sure the horses have a good temperment. When we sell the horse it is not our responsibility to take the horse back. The buyer is responsibile for the horse after we sell them. We make sure all of our horses go to good homes. And yes if we needed to take a horse back then we would. But it is not our responsibility to do that.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by cavylover2010

I do hope that the slauter markets open up in the U.S. Where do you think the dangerous horses should go. Should we just keep them and let someone get hurt or even killed by them?

You have to be kidding me. If a horse is dangerous then the breeder/owner should spend the money on a professional trainer to try to deal with the issues. Few horses are dangerous for no reason. Most are dangerous because humans, in one way or another, ruined them. If the horse cannot be "fixed" then the owner/breeder should pay for them to be humanely euthanized. NOT sell them for the $200 odd dollars they might get and send them off to a horrific death. Have you ever seen horse slaughter? It's extremely and unfathomably cruel and awful.

Originally Posted by cavylover2010

We breed our horses for good conformation and build. We also make sure the horses have a good temperment

Are they registered or are they grade? What breed or kind of horses do you breed? At what age do you start training them to halter? When do they carry tack? At what age do you start to ride them? How old are they when sold and what background checks do you do on the buyers? How many horse do you breed each season? Are your colts gelded before sale, especially if it's obvious that they do not live up to breeding expectations? What accomplishments do your breeding horses have? How many points have they earned and in what?

Originally Posted by cavylover2010

When we sell the horse it is not our responsibility to take the horse back. The buyer is responsibile for the horse after we sell them. We make sure all of our horses go to good homes. And yes if we needed to take a horse back then we would. But it is not our responsibility to do that.

Then you are part of the problem. It is your responsibility, period. You bred the animal and you are responsible for it's life. You need to make it quite clear to the buyers that your door is open to that animal if ever they can no longer keep it. If you don't take responsibility for your actions then you are helping to fill those slaughterhouse trucks. If you cannot afford to care for all of the horses you produce then you should not be breeding.

I really think you should start reading that "Fugly Horse" blog I gave you the link to in my previous post. You will likely find it very enlightening.

[VoodooJoint]

Just had to add this link for anyone who thinks horse slaughter is a reasonable option. It was just posted on the Fugly Horse of the Day! site. Warning. It's graphic but in my opinion you need to see it.

No Country For Horses

[sus4rabbitsnpigs]

So if people buy animals from you, and mistreat them, if it their fault? Your logic is astounding.

[emily111897]

Originally Posted by VoodooJoint

Who cares if we loose a few "specialty breeds". I don't think the rescuers would cry if the Satins and Teddies, along with their crippling bone degeneration and skin disorders, disappeared. Nor would they cry if the Skinnies and Baldwins, with their cancers, heart disease, immunodeficiencies and short lifespans, died off. The only people who would cry would be the breeders who can't exploit them anymore so that they can have their pathetic and selfish social life and win a few cheap ribbons.

If you are interested in how we feel about humans breeding I have one thing to say; Freedom of Choice. Humans are free to choose to risk their lives, animals are not.

I honestly don't believe in breeding, but I would cry if any breed of guinea pig dies. I know it's nature -- but are you saying they should die because of what humans do? Because they have medical problems, though they can help it? Honestly, I think that is very depressing.

Another thing - they have a choice. If you have a male and female in a huge cage together, they choose if they want to breed or not. If they decide to breed, it's not humans' fault.

[sus4rabbitsnpigs]

No, if you as a human choose to put a (unneutered) male and female guinea pig in a cage together, they follow nature and procreate. It isn't like they sit down and talk about having kids.

It is the breeders' fault because they choose to get a breeding pair. They could have easily not gotten pigs or gotten a same sex pair or neutered them.

No one is saying kill the guinea pigs because they are a breed prone to certain illnesses. Let the breed die out or actually try to improve the breed, not keep breeding them because they look nice on the outside.

Maybe you should do a little research about guinea pig diseases and breeds before you say things like this. It sounds like you are young and inexperienced.

[emily111897]

Originally Posted by sus4rabbitsnpigs

Maybe you should do a little research about guinea pig diseases and breeds before you say things like this. It sounds like you are young and inexperienced.

Sorry, but I'm neither. I just have my own beliefs, and we are intitled to those beliefs.

[VoodooJoint]

Emily - The breeders created animals with severe health problems because they bred them for looks, not for health. They created animals that suffer. I know of a breeder that worked closely with a vet to try to breed out the bone loss issues in her show satins. She failed miserably. The bone issues and the satin coat go hand in hand.

Of course the animals aren't at fault but are you saying that people should keep breeding them, knowing that they are going to suffer? Do you honestly think that pretty coats and colorings are worth more then acting humanely towards an animal? How many more animals do you think should suffer in an attempt to fix their health problems? In my opinion I think 1 more is too many. To do what you are suggesting means that thousands and thousands more would be created to suffer, and it's doubtful that the health issues can be fixed in the end.

The breeders need to stop playing god. They created animals that suffer because of their greed of prestige and cheap ribbons. The animals should no longer be bred. The remaining ones should be loved and well cared for and the affected breeds should be allowed to gracefully die out. That is the humane thing to do.

EDIT to add - as far as the animals having a choice as to whether or not they breed then please read this link What if I keep the babies? - Guinea Pig Cages Forum

[sus4rabbitsnpigs]

Can you explain to me what diseases Satins, Teddies and Texels are prone to and why then?